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Somehow I hope we muddle though this impaired focus on identity. If only folks would read their David Hume and take a peek an Buddhism's anatma-vada! -- the quest for identity(and labels and pronouns) sure looks often unhelpful and unhealthy at times to me. I don't doubt most people are well-meaning as they seek to relate to each other, but for those addicted to victimhood: let them read Nietzsche. It would also be nice if people read the Bible and decided from the best parts to be nice.

Thanks for your interest in interfaith dialogue. You may have already explored the CRES website. There are many ways interfaith dialogue in the Kansas City area has been practiced, to my mind now less effectively as a city-wide effort than in the past, but those that remain active are still important and your involvement would be welcome.

Here are two of the most active:

The Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council meets monthly and distributes a weekly calendar.

The Dialogue Institute is a Turkish Muslim organization under the interfaith banner to promote an understanding of a form of Islam taught by Fethullah Gulen, although there work is not doctrinaire. Their website seems to be down. Dialogue Institute of Kansas City, 4215 Shawnee Dr, Kansas City, KS 66106-3642. Now, of course, they are focusing on earthquake relief.  Other Muslim groups here also welcome dialogue.

Have you taken the course, "Ministry in a Pluralistic World"? Where are you in your seminary studies?

I attach several PDFs that I think are important for appreciating this area from an academic point of view, and from in practice. If I were to recommend a single book, it would be InterActive Faith: The Essential Interreligious Community-Building Handbook. Skylight Paths, 2008. ISBN  13:978-1-59473-237-9

The CRES website has many resources, but I understand you are most interested in the actual practices of interfaith dialogue.

I should perhaps mention the monthly Vital Conversations, in March with a Muslim. You can attend in person or by Zoom.

Finally, let me share why I regard interfaith understanding so important. It is because the world is engulfed in three great crises: the environment, personhood, and social order. I beleive interfaith work can help us address these crises and give us an understanding of how they are interrelated, and thus bring us closer to a healing apprehension of the sacred. I have written about this, but this chart summarizes the CRES research program: https://cres.org/index1.html#chart

Thanks for remembering me from the wedding! Maybe this email can help you get started. Let me know if I can be of further help. And I'll be interested in what you discover as you persue interfaith activities.

Thank you for your continuing efforts at expanding interfaith understanding in our community, and raising clearly the contribution such understanding can make to the ethical and moral behavior for all of us as Americans.  And thank you for your contributions to the interfaith panel discussion convened by Country Club Christian Church Thursday.

I am sure it is a disappointment that you have not received responses to your letter to several churches extending your hospitality. I suppose that this time of year may be especially difficult for Christian churches preoccupied with preparing for major festivals, including Thanksgiving and, for the liturgical churches, Advent and then the Christmas season. This may be why your letter of Sept 27 is not currently receiving responses, although I do not know which churches were recipients, so there may be other reasons. Perhaps they were recently involved with visits to other mosques. Also late September for many churches is a time of reorganization after a summer variation. I am not trying to excuse a lack of responses, but many churches plan programs many months in advance. Of course there might be less favorable interpretations as well, which is why I admire your persistence.

One statement in your letter was particularly welcome, which I applaud with joy: "Good dialogue should result in the deepening of the faith of every participant." I want people to love their own faiths as much as I love mine. The fear some people have, that interfaith exchange will reduce commitment to their own faith is, experience has shown, not true, but rather the opposite happens, as participants are motivated to delve more deeply into their own faiths by the stimulation of encountering others. However, there is one statement in your letter with which I have reservations, that "our similarities as Americans are more significant than our differences." I think differences are to be respected and enjoyed, and both similarities and differences are important to recognize. I disagree with the composer that diversity always is uncomfortable (47 minutes, about 32 seconds into the recording of the panel Thursday). When I am introduced to a new person, I am delighted, not distressed. When I encounter a new idea, I am happy, not fearful. Perhaps our culture does make some people afraid of differences, but surely that is not always the case. Couples in love often speak of how much they appreciate how their partners are different and enlarge their understanding of the world, with that delight sparking their relationship at the very beginning. I worry that unskilled (though well-intentioned) people doing interfaith work inadvertently suggest fear of difference by working so hard to establish similarities.

I remember a call I received from a reader shortly after I had been hired by the KC Star to write a weekly column. She said something like, "I just love reading your column." I thanked her and asked why she liked it. "Because all religions are basically the same," she said, with an easy comfort in her voice. I was surprised and wondered if she actually had understood what I had written since I had been emphasizing variety. So I asked, "How many religions are you acquainted with?" She responded, "Oh, I don't need to study them. They are all the same." I find this distressing because the presumption of similarity leads to lazy comfort instead of the far more rewarding exploration without that presumption, and the possible discoveries by seeing new things or things in new contexts. Many sentimental people think that all religions worship the same Creator when in fact there are non-theistic faiths, without such a god.

Many scholars, while recognizing that "religion" is an Enlightenment-Modernist-Colonial construct with no exact equivalent outside the traditional Western context, still sometimes think of four dimensions of religion: Creed, Code, Cultus, and Community. Others (such as Ninian Smart) have identified seven or more such components. In any case, it may be useful to recognize that "religion" is more complex than just beliefs and behavior, and that different faiths are likely to emphasize some components over others. Christianity in general is more likely to emphasize beliefs over other dimensions compared to most other "religions," and I think we can avoid muddles by recognizing such distinctions. Identifying "religion" as "belief" or, less commonly, "behavior," is, in my view, a peculiar Western misunderstanding about the complexity of religious expression. As the world became colonized by Western ways of thinking, other faiths have sometimes sought to understand themselves in Western categories. To me, this is like the loss of languages as dominant languages crowd out indigenous tongues. Further, the assumption that I will learn about another religion by reading its text not only ignores oral traditions but confounds religions with texts that must be placed in context to be rightly appreciated. I guess I am somewhat uncomfortable with statements made by adherents of a particular religion about other religions without their adequate acquaintance with other religions; better to ask questions. While I admire the effort of the composer, the fact that she had an idea and went searching for texts with a preconceived purpose and had such difficulty finding texts that worked for her might indicate she has missed the distinctive character of each tradition; starting with a conclusion before a search begins sometimes means the temptation to miss critically important things you are not looking for that would otherwise lead to a different result. Of course no tradition cited is unrelated to others; boundaries between religions are seldom always clear; and tremendous variation within a religion is usual, and religions have historically influenced each other as they themselves have developed internally throughout the centuries.

You, Professor Benz, and others may have a different opinion about this, and I certainly would welcome learning your thoughts. I was surprised that none of the panelists, to my knowledge, has been historically involved with interfaith work in the area through the Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council, and it is wonderful to expand the circle of conversation as you, Imam Dr. Abdelhamid, are so determinedly doing.

Concerning  "Etiquettes of the Interfaith Dialogue" that you cite in your letter: there are a number of books that might be helpful. Two very different books from an interesting publishing house that come to mind immediately are

    * Stuart M. Matlins, ed., Arthur J. Magida, ed. How to Be a Perfect Stranger: The Essential Religious Etiquette Handbook, 4th Edition. SkyLight Paths, 2006. ISBN-10: 159473140332, and
    * Bud Heckman, ed. InterActive Faith: The Essential Interreligious Community-Building Handbook. Skylight Paths, 2008. ISBN 13:978-1-59473-237-9.
 

Frankly, my brother, I think the question of similarities or differences is not the most urgent question before us. What is urgent are the three great crises of humanity: in the environment, in personhood, in community. Interfaith efforts have utterly failed, in my opinion, to bring the resources of the sacred in Primal, Asian, and Monotheistic traditions, respectively, to these overwhelming crises. (A suggestive chart of a research program appears here.) While developing relationships is absolutely essential, the disasters unfolding in these areas are being addressed only in tiny ways and largely without the profound religious values of the sacred made evident which are needed to awaken us to save us from disaster. In my view, a great deal of interfaith conversation has been, in this light, relatively inconsequential and speaking "to the choir."

It may be useful to distinguish at least two kinds of interfaith work. First, building relationships, I believe from experience, best focuses on the experience of the participants without the participants being cast into the position of being authoritative about their faiths. It is better to ask "When has your faith been especially meaningful to you?" than "What does your faith teach about God?"

Another kind of interfaith exchange is possible with participants knowledgeable about their faiths in which the conversation is focused on identifying and clarifying how different faiths approach issues like the arts, nature, ethics, service, suffering, death, worship, leadership, scripture, gratitude, the transcendent, and so forth. Such discussions need not be academic, though some level of comfort with scholarly approaches is helpful. Frankly, I am weary of discussing how we are all so similar. In four decades of interfaith work, I am not convinced that this approach produces many significant improvements in the world around us.

There are, of course, other forms of interfaith activity, such as performing social service together which can be of great value in helping others, developing relationships, and enlarging understanding. Dr Khan is a model for such important efforts.

You and I do not need to agree; I welcome disagreement; I know I can be mistaken. But I want to support your wholesome efforts any way I can. The community needs your beautiful and warm leadership and companionship. If you arrange a panel -- whether I am a part of it or not -- I would do what I can to promote it through my connections and resources, and I'd suggest that The Interfaith Center at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, also participate, and perhaps the group in Nevada I am in touch with. I imagine the Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council would also be interested, and other interfaith organizations and agencies in the area with which we have worked, as well as the contacts that other panelists might bring to a Zoom panel discussion.

A clear question to explore, carefully articulated, might be interest to a large number of people. As for timing, I would suggest after Christmastide would be best, if that is enough time for adequate preparation and promotion. Please do not feel under any obligation to include me on the panel. Involving younger people has a  real advantage.But I would be happy to promote such an interfaith effort as you might pull together.

Most sincerely yours in faith,
Vern
 

Thank you for your thoughtfulness in working on your wedding ceremony! and for sending an early draft to me.

I will do what you want, and paganism is absolutely no problem for me. As founder of the Kansas City Interfaith Council, I specifically asked one of my pagan friends to be one of its 12 faith members -- Mike Nichols was the first pagan member. I like the idea of invoking "the Gods, Odin, Freyr, Thor, Freya and Hecate", but I must say I think a wedding should be a celebration of love and commitment, not an educational opportunity or a time for instruction. I know a lot of ministers give mini-sermons about the meaning of marriage, but in my opinion, by that point it's too late for the couple to benefit; if they haven't talked through their relationship by then, I doubt that any thing an officiant will say will be particularly effective; and an advertisement for the officiant's own faith, or that of the couple, greatly detracts, in my view, from the reason people want to join the couple for the occasion, which is to witness and celebrate.

Some of this is a matter of phrasing more than content. For example, the draft Welcome Statement to me seems more like a statement (the draft even calls it a Statement), rather than a greeting. When people you've invited to your home for dinner arrive, you don't say, "We meet this evening to enjoy each other's company. Socializing with friends has many benefits and tonight I want you to learn about the ocean and the river and the gifts of the North." You say, "Welcome! Come in! Can I take your jacket? I have some gifts of the North I'm eager to show you." The welcome is to your guests, not to you. You've invited them.

Another example: in your draft, he celebrant introduces the Ring Exchange this way: "Now it is time to exchange the rings." Another Statement. Far more interesting, in my opinion would be the celebrant asking a question, such as "'To confirm your love and loyalty, will you exchange rings?" This moves the action along, instead of working through a manuscript.  The meaning of the rings can certainly be explained, but better as a response than straight instruction.

The one thing in the draft I find most a problem is the sexist, patriarchal "you may kiss the bride" instruction. A fuller explanation of my view: https://cres.org/wed_supplements.htm#approach3  --  3

I am surprised that your draft seems more words than ritual. When I started reading the draft, I expected something like censing the four (or six or ten) directions, or hand-fasting, or jumping over the broom. Your guests would find rituals you perform more interesting than hearing words spoken by me they will quickly forget, and I think you'd remember rituals more than words, too.

As I say, I will do what you wish, but having performed well over a thousand weddings in my career (I wrote a number of columns about weddings in The Kansas City Star), I am more eager to help couples create a joyous celebration of their love and commitment through ritual than I am to act in my professorial role--that's for the seminary.

One more time I will say I will do what you want. But if, having written as I have, you would prefer to work with someone else, I will assist you and Pilgrim Chapel to find another officiant. While I am happy to make suggestions as I have, I am eager for your wedding to be what you want it to be. I do appreciate your thoughtfulness in working on your wedding ceremony and for sending an early draft to me. I think I would really enjoy working with you, but I wanted to be "up-front" with you about my approach in case you had not considered the points I have identified. You need not agree or adopt them, but I feel my duty is to raise such points for your consideration.  
 

#Diet

God told the Jews not to eat pork. Muslims, too. God should have also said, "Hey, Everybody! Lay off eating my animals altogether, at least as much as you can. The methane those creatures produce will destroy the planet I worked so hard* to make, and meat is not so good for your health."

*I'm still resting - have you noticed? - too tired to stop the floods, tornadoes, drought, etc.

Food choices do not indicate politics: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/opinion/keep-your-politics-out-of-my-arugula.html

I think the bottom line for me is that a Buddhist (ecological) way of understanding the world (pratitya-samutpada, codependent origination) makes more sense to me than a Platonic or Emanationist understanding. I have studied Kabbalah a bit, but it is so much an artifice and never seems to explain away - or acknowledge - the basic contradiction of perfection falling.

Yes, I agree that the foundational principle of Thomism is "Being is intelligible,"which is why, though I respect that rationalistic impulse, I find it insufficient, as Aquinas himself did when he had his mystic vision at the end of his life, considering his work as straw.

Of course there is something like a "Perennial Philosophy." But it does not characterize important religions. It appears in many, but may not be at their core, and often is at their periphery. And I think loosing the insights they bring shows the inadequacy of the "Perennial Philosophy," especially as inflected in the West today, it is a form of degenerate Protestantism. Which is why the 3-part research scheme of CRES was developed.

In the Ethics, Aristotle (or his student note-taker) conceives of humans as capable of both rational and irrational (other creatures as well). At one point, he declines to say how rational and irrational are distinguished, like a concave and convex surface, or like separate bodies. (Book 1, ch 13.) One cannot read Aristotle without amazement at the scope and subtlety of thought and often detail of observation, as well as his knowledge of the preSocratics. Aristotle's discussion of such topics as rationality range throughout the enormous Aristotelian corpus that we have, but without a systematic and focused treatment of human nature. I have to defer to Paul on the question of Being as intelligible. I do have parts of De Anima marked in my copy (I cite 2:11 in my book of sonnets, #142), but I apparently have not marked the passage Paul cites.

The Perennial Philosophy does not characterize important religions. It appears in many, but may not be at their core, and often is at their periphery. And I think the particular and unique insights they bring, neglected in the Perennial Philosophy, shows the inadequacy of the Perennial Philosophy. As inflected in the West today, it is a form of degenerate feel-good Protestantism. Which is partly why the 3-part research scheme of CRES was developed.

V

===

Pilgrimage can be understood in at least three ways. 1. A literal journey to a place of special significance with an openness to, or intent of, personal transformation, enlightenment, or commitment.  Canterbury, Mecca, Bodh Gaya are traditional pilgrimage sites. 2. A metaphorical journey as one explores or works through an opportunity or perplexity. Joseph Campell's Hero with a Thousand Faces develops a 3-part schema for this process. 3. The repeated journey one regularly makes to one's religious temple for refreshment and renewal, as worshipers each Sunday return to St Paul's, our axis mundi, for the Bread of Life. My literal pilgrimage to Mt Hiei, for example, though Buddhist, and the literal annual Memorial Day protest march to the Honeywell plant, though purportedly secular, deepens and widens my Sunday pilgrimage to an encounter with the Living Christ at St Paul's. I try to use my 400 steps walking to St Paul's as a reminder I am always on pilgrimage, and how blessed I am to find the Center again and again with you at St Paul's.

===

Yes, Iran and Saudi Arabia, both largely created by Western imperialism, with the love of oil on one hand, and the CIA's overthrow of Mosaddegh (also because our and the Brit's, love of oil), have governments claiming to be Islamic, just as Russia has a govt claiming to be Christian, not to mention Orban in Hungary. So you have two wicked govts claiming to be Islamic that we created ruling 130 million people, out of 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet. Don't get me started on Turkey.

It is always important to distinguish the use those seeking power make of religion from the religion itself. A minor but to some humorous example: One only has to look at Donald ("Two Corinthians") Trump holding a Bible in front of an Episcopal Church to see how a politician who knows nothing about the faith he claims will use it hypocritically. The Iranian leaders are not hypocritical, but manifest the same use of religion for power.

We are so lucky to have some Zoroastrians in Kansas City! (Only about 200,000 in the world.)

V

---
https://www.hansboersma.org/articles-1/all-one-in-christ-why-christian-platonism-is-key-to-the-great-tradition

The author of this essay, Hans Boersma, teaches at Nashotah House, a Wisconsin theological seminary in the Anglo-Catholic tradition, where some Episcopalians train for the priesthood. I am so embarrassed.

I found this essay interesting in that it identifies two objections to the Platonic tradition that Christians must make -- it is unBiblical and it is otherworldly. Boersma then softens the objections and asserts that the  Great Tradition is an adoption [he should have written "adaption") of a Platonic metaphysic or worldview that at key points takes exception to the Platonic tradition from which it borrows. He also discusses the hierarchical structure of Platonism and the conflict between Platonism and  trinitarianism.

"But why then borrow from Platonism at all? Why not simply go with the unadulterated gold of the biblical faith and toss out the Platonist dross?" Unfortunately, Boersma's answer - Christianity rejected Epicureanism - is pretty thin. Boersma seems to think it is an either/or situation. In fact Christianity's Great Tradition incorporates many sources, and there are many options besides either Platonism or Epicureanism.

Here is one particularly risible passage in the essay:

"Christian Platonism helps us to read Scripture as Scripture - As a result, in the secularism of modernity, observable objects are defined by their DNA, and historical events are simply the result of this-worldly cause and effect. Both created objects and historical events are shorn of their transcendent horizon. Sensible objects are form-less, and historical events without providential backdrop."

This assessment of nonPlatonic biblical interpretation is crude and astonishingly ignorant of both Roman Catholic and Protestant biblical hermeneutics, from Platonist Origen (who criticized the Platonic thought of Celsus) to more recent approaches such as by Paul Ricœur.

In Vernum Domini, Benedict XVI says ( 29b, "Here we can point to a fundamental criterion of biblical hermeneutics: the primary setting for scriptural interpretation is the life of the Church." This is not Platonic. See also Paul VI's Dei Verbum, 12.

I am fine with anyone being a Christian Platonist, or Christian Existentialist (like Kierkegaard), or a Christian Aristotelian (like Aquinas) or Christian neoPlatonist (like Anselm), or whatever. The Christian faith is wide and very deep, and there are many kinds of people, so I am glad there are many ways to approach the throne of God. But I resent the insinuation that I am not part of the Great Tradition if I am not a Christian Platonist. Jesus not a Platonist.
Vern

Vern Barnet is a religious leader and author who has written extensively about the intersections of spirituality and daily life. He is the founder and director of the Center for Religious and Spiritual Studies (CRES) in Kansas City, Missouri.

One of Barnet's key beliefs is that spirituality should be a central part of daily life, rather than being relegated to just one hour a week in a religious service. He encourages individuals to find their own spiritual path, rather than adhering to a specific doctrine or belief system.

Barnet also emphasizes the importance of interfaith dialogue and understanding. He believes that different religions and belief systems can learn from one another and that by understanding and respecting different perspectives, we can create a more peaceful and harmonious world.

Another belief of Barnet's is that the concept of "religion" should be expanded to include non-traditional spiritual practices and beliefs. He argues that traditional religious institutions often do not adequately address the spiritual needs of many individuals and that alternative forms of spirituality should be recognized and respected.

---

Friends:

 I applaud Anton's adding some nuance to my concerns about the unthinking praise of the Enlightenment in the original article under consideration -- with apologies for inadvertently sneaking in 5 points instead of 4 by my mis-numbering.

Anton is right; the history is complicated, and it isn't always easy to be sure of what influenced what. I don't blame the Enlightenment for Roger Bacon's 1620 natura vexata, for example, but I have to think he helped get it started. I certainly begin the list with Plato, and confidently include Descartes, among those who bequeathed to us a pervasive dualism.

I am especially intrigued by the idea Anton presents about the disenchantment of the world arising from, or made possible by, at least some strains of Hebraic monotheism. This and other points merit further discussion: why were religious leaders during the Enlightenment arguing against it? -- was it power or theology or what? To what extent is the secularization of the churches a product of the Reformation, which preceded the Enlightenment itself? How do the forces of capitalism in themselves affect a pervasive sense of secularity? 

I don't  know how to estimate the prevalence of harmful "woke-ness" in higher education from the flurry of articles about it, but the shocking way the president of Hamline handled the controversy there, taken up by the Journal of Higher Education as well as others, and what seems to me to be a disastrous take-over of the Unitarian Universalist denomination (such that I quit my membership in the UU ministers' association) fill me with disgust at the betrayal of the ideals of liberal education and what was once a liberal denomination.

Vern

On 2023-02-19 8:58 PM, Anton Jacobs wrote:

Friends:

I have taken too long to reply to Vern's response to my referencing the Enlightenment favorably, so you might just want to delete this email after this first sentence. I've been busy teaching again and taken up with other matters, although I've thought about Vern's comments, off and on. My and Vern's original references to the Enlightenment were cryptic in the extreme; his response less so, as will be mine here, yet both are wanting of more exploration and dialogue.

Generally I agree with Vern's identifications of current problems in his numbers 1 through 4 but think attributing  these to the Enlightenment is far too broad a generalization.

(Let me say, as an aside, I don't disagree with his comment about lamenting colleges/universities turning away from vigorous debate when they do, but my suspicion is that this phenomenon has been blown out of proportion by the media and right-wing reaction. In the last ten years, I've taught extensively in one of the most secular and one of the most religious colleges you can imagine, and have not seen any evidence of this at all, compared to my experience in higher education as a student and professor 40-50 years ago. Perhaps I would see it more if I taught in a large university. I should ask some of my large-university colleagues and relatives.)

Back to the Enlightenment: The main point I want to make is that such linear attribution of cause on so wide a scale can only be partially correct. So I would, in the interest of further inquiry, cloud the issue here a bit. My frame will probably be a bit different from Vern's as well. I'm thinking of the desacralization of life and the reduction of the transcendent to specifically "religious," "individual," and "communal" experiences in the confines of churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, spiritual-but-not-religious individualism, and so on, which, if I understand Vern on this point regarding "making organized religion secular institutions," results in reducing the sense of transcendence itself. I'm informed as well by Max Weber's views on the disenchantment of the modern world, on which I once taught a whole course.

I want to suggest that a Hegel-Marx-informed understanding of the dialectical realities will see a more complicated and, I hope, truer reality than such generalizations as that we can blame the Enlightenment for this, that, or whatever. A framework influenced by the Hegel-Marx paradigm exposes a more nuanced and dialectical totality of historical reality. So the Enlightenment period and its consequences are better seen as a complex result of the contest between rationalist Enlightenment thinkers and religious, political, and romantic resistance and reactions, alongside the enormous forces of a developing capitalism and industrialization. After all, rationalist and scientific advancements were resisted tooth-and-nail by religious leaders, which is surely a factor in the extreme and even fundamentalist rationalism of scientific and Enlightenment thought. It is out of this contest, along with the forces of capitalism and industrialization that we get the world we have today.

Keep in mind that, per Harvey Cox (The Secular City), Western Judeo-Christianity itself initially separated the Divine from the creation itself, along with it radical monotheism, which is surely among the seeds and fertilizer of desacralization, secularization, and the liberation of rationalist thought. I once read that the Hebrew in Genesis for giving humankind dominion over the earth can also be translated as "exploit" and even "rape," although I've never confirmed that myself. The consequences fo secularization are not entirely bad; it is mixed. Then a Platonic-philosophically-and-Roman-imperalistically informed Christianity stamped out the Western Paganism that still contained a sense of both transcendence and the sacrality of earth and nature. (I might note that Ernest Gellner (Postmodernism, Reason and Religion) suggests that without the fundamentalist dogmatisms of Western religion, "the rationalist naturalism of the Enlightenment might well never have seen the light of day.")

I would say, too, we cannot ignore the contribution of the Reformation and the Protestant elevation of individual autonomy vis-à-vis God as a factor in the condition of our postmodern, postsecular world. I suspect that if we look closely enough, we'll find plenty of incipient desacralization, certainly in the seeds of  the "spiritual but not religious" trend, as well as others.

And, although Descartes is widely blamed by theologians and philosophers for the mind-body split, it seems to me we cannot ignore the likely contributions of Greek philosophy (notably Plato and Neo-platonism). Descartes's mind-body split was probably not cut from whole cloth.

Well, that's all I have to say at this time. It's probably taken too much of my time, as Vern's response probably took too much of his time, and, if you've read this far, too much of yours. But such dialogue is a kind of dance, and Nietzsche said we should count any day lost on which we have not danced at least once.

blessings

anton

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 12:39 PM Vern Barnet <vern@cres.org> wrote:

Anton and I both referenced the Enlightenment -- he favorably, I not so. Permit a clarification, with the greatest respect and regard for Anton.

I applaud Enlightenment ideals such as democracy, fairness, quality, and such. I lament that colleges and universities have turned away from the Enlightenment ideal of the vigorous contest of ideas because somebody's feelings might be hurt. On such matters, count me pro-Enlightenment.

I wrote that " I do not think the article identifies the main problem with the Enlightenment, especially as it has affected religion." What I mean, in brief, is that the Enlightenment, continuing earlier trends,

(1) made organized religion secular institutions and thereby reduced the sense of transcendence associated with them and

(2) the mentality that nature is to be conscripted to our purposes rather than revered (the Romantics imperfectly reacted to this dimension of the Enlightenment),

(3) largely amplified a dualism between body and mind or spirit (Descartes most guilty), (4) developed a subject-object epistemology that neglected the presets of the perceiver, and

(4) created a sensibility about truth as facticity, resulting in Fundamentalism along with, in the larger culture, the disempowering of symbol, metaphor, and rite, leading to the unconscious quest for the sacred in partial ways -- from ComiCon idolization to political conspiracy to "I alone can fix it," fragmenting our nation and generating identity politics (and isolated communities) instead of the Beloved Community. This tacit quest for transcendence, undisciplined by historic experience, often becomes demonic.

Religious leaders have often been unaware of the destruction caused by the Enlightenment and its precursors, or ineffective in response. For many well-meaning people, church has become about moral direction and morale uplift, more than abandoning agendas to wait upon and encounter the Holy.

I agree with Anton on several other points, such as greed and capitalism. Tillich is not the last word, but he is a good word, a very good word.

Vern

On 2023-02-06 4:06 AM, Anton Jacobs wrote:

Here is my cynical take: First reaction: this is a very long and fairly simplistic sermon. Second reaction: it is idealistic, not giving nearly as much attention as it should to the materialistic foundation of capitalism and its culturally eroding power. Third reaction: in my view, we have not appropriated the Enlightenment ideals enough, overall. Fourth reaction what we have done, at least in the United States, is combine the barbarism and authoritarianism of Christian orthodoxy with the anarchism and greed of capitalism. Fifth reaction: by being an idealistic sermon, much like the sorts of things that David Brooks writes, it blames the victims. Our problem, they say, is that we’re not thinking right! Sixth reaction: I have finally gotten around to reading this long sermon just about the same time that I received an email from a friend inviting me to a two or three day, spiritual retreat by zoom for the bargain cost of only $175! We have an awful lot of spiritual huckstering going on in our society. Seventh reaction: I think we need to get back to reading Paul Tillich, as well as the secular existentialists, and their insights into the inescapable alienation and anxiety of being a living human being.

Cheers 

Anton 

====

On 2023-02-05 5:57 PM, Vern Barnet wrote:
>
> David,
>
> If you are putting together a special discussion group for this purpose, please include me.
>
> Initial comments:
>
> * I fully agree that a lack of a sense of commonweal is acute and itself a crisis.   A portion of the essay's prescription, "to prioritize the common good and common life over private interest," is in a way like the message of many traditions and certainly the Gospel, but I don't see the prescription including the power of transcendent revelation to draw us to such a message. Am I missing this?
>
> * I do not think the article identifies the main problem with the Enlightenment, especially as it has affected religion. I found the article laborious to read, oddly largely sheltered from our ecological crisis, and shallow in its attention to religious institutions in America today.
>
> * I would be very interested in what others say about its political analysis. The article  could lead to a wonderful discussion. Thanks for sharing it!

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 08:41 David Nelson <humanagenda@gmail.com> wrote:

Friends,

I would love to discuss this article with you.  Spiritual Realism in a Divided America by Tim Shriver and Tara Isabella Burton (plough.com)

David Nelson, D. Min.

Habakkuk 3:17-18 "Though . . . Yet": presents us with a realistic way to live without despair.  

Huston Smith often said, "The news of the day is always bad, but the news of eternity is always good."

Functionally, the Christian "Though . . . Yet" parallels the practice of Amor fati. The fact that Nietzsche advocated a similar attitude should not be too surprising when both the glories and horrors of existence are contemplated.

While this article does not mention the Moral Majority, the identification of the political right with political shenanigans certainly strengthened then and thereafter, ultimately turning people, esp Protestants, away from churches, after a now-evaporating heyday. I think the author might well have included this degeneration as a fourth factor.

I'll not repeat my long-standing accusations against the culture of greed on which much of our economic system rests, which undercuts, exploits, violates, blasphemes human relationships, or the fact that religious leaders have failed to restore a rational framework for sacred narrative. Folks like JS Spong, whom I partly admire, have been far more destructive than constructive.

The article mentions the Episcopal Church  I can't speak as if I understand the Episcopal Church nationally, and my local experience is simply too favorable, personal, and limited to project into the future. I do think there is a difference between attendance and vitality, and I certainly experience vitality in the Episcopal Church. I do not see signs much anywhere that an understanding of faith is divine play, along the lines I wrote here: https://cres.org/notes.htm#FRANCHISE -- and without some such understanding, the New Atheists identified by this article will be increasingly effective.

"Nationally, the Episcopal Church’s membership peaked at 3.44 million members in 1959. It has been declining since the 1960s. 'As of 2019, it had about 1.8 million, the Episcopal News Service reported in 2020. “Membership is down 17.4% over the last 10 years.'"--https://www.mnchurches.org/blog/2021/12/6/xpost-episcopal-bishop-church-dying-and-needs-die-move-forward

Beyond Today
https://youtu.be/KNuDg-yEUjw

SO! Now I know what ChatGPT thinks of me.

Thanks, Paul.

 Not too bad, except for the business about "rather than adhering to a specific doctrine or belief system." Of course I think religion need not be focused on beliefs -- most are not. I like the fundamental evolutionary stages Merlin Donald outlines, which explains why liturgy is so much more fundamental than conceptions.

An article I just read uses in part the ritual behavior of animals as a way to explore whether animals can be religious (elephants grieving their dead, a good example, chimp rain dances, etc) .

BTW, I believe my teacher, Eliade, was wrong to think that religion arises from myths rather than rituals.

But I also believe that one's life may be incomplete without participation in a religious community or a particular tradition -- I worry that you can't do it by yourself very well.

When he was rediscovered in the mid-19th century, Vermeer seemed to be more than just an overlooked old master. He seemed to have something particular to say to a Europe careening toward modernism — especially in his sharp-to-fuzzy optical tricks and unorthodox cropping that, to viewers then and even more now, make his paintings feel as “true” as a photograph.

That false innocence bewitched more and more in the alienated 20th century, which turned to Vermeer for transparency, order, harmony. (The paintings’ secular subjects made this easier, whatever his Catholic stimuli.) But beauty and calm just aren’t enough to explain the intensity of Vermeeromania today, and I think his appeal now lies somewhere else. It lies, much more, in the paintings’ capacity for deceleration, and how the difference between their tactile reality and obvious construction can only be seen with time.

Be quiet and look at the girl with pursed lips, reading a letter aloud in the half-light. The clouded, motionless view of Delft. The maid directing all her attention to the milk that pours from a humble earthenware jug. Nothing important is happening, and yet that nothing is everything now.

Vermeer has become one of our last defibrillators of absorption and awareness. He matters now precisely for his vindication that we have not wholly decayed into data receptors; that we are still human, and if only we find the right master we can slow down time. What is a masterpiece, in 2023? A thing that returns to you — vitally, commandingly, after this clamorous world of news and notifications seemed to have wiped them out — your powers of concentration.

 A brilliant response to dangerous rhetoric, more often from the right, but too often also on the left, currently. Ad homenims are dangerous and so tempting for us to make. The attack should be on the Court's decision one disagrees with, though criticism of a justice based on corruption is of course an appropriate line of pursuit. Threatening extra-legal violent responses demeans and undercuts any appropriate message.

Missouri Secretary of State
The Hon. John R. Ashcroft

Dear Secretary Ashcroft --

I am eighty years old. Since childhood I have cherished libraries and the diversity of ideas and experiences to which they have introduced me. As a father and a clergyman, I have encouraged the God-given gift of curiosity awakened and strengthened through professionally-chosen books and media in schools and public libraries. As an American citizen, I value the freedom to explore the full range of human thought and creativity without limits imposed by individuals and groups with any particular political agenda, and most certainly by governmental officials, most of whom are unqualified and untrained in library science, and whose constrained appreciation of the scope and depth of the human story throughout the ages and as it unfolds today may inhibit their capacities to understand the harm they would inflict on our children, our nation, and civilization.

Missouri’s SB 775 is an embarrassment and a disgrace. It mocks our motto of "show me" with fear and presumption. It demeans the rights of citizens and threatens honest and dedicated librarians, educators, and others. Instead of clear and effective legislation, it invites costly bureaucracy, litigation, and civic disruption, turmoil, and distress.

You have the opportunity to mitigate problems arising from this foolish, misguided, and fanatic response to an imaginary sexual, political, and other threats with the most modest and carefully-considered administrative rule. Please make clear you are protecting American freedoms and the extraordinary value school and public libraries give our people, our economy, and our progress.

Respectfully,
The Rev Barnet, DMn
CRES minister emeritus
[address]

To me, the best example of a new narrative is a redemption narrative in the spirit of Abraham Lincoln’s second inaugural, which is, this is a beautiful experiment, we have screwed it up in all sorts of ways. There will be divine justice imposed as we try to reckon with how we’ve screwed it up. There’s ultimately a redemption at the end of the story, and we are working toward that redemption together. 

To me, that’s a story that takes into account the voices of those who have been oppressed but points us all in the direction of unity. To me, that’s a realistic story that maybe we can congregate around, but we can’t be a diverse nation without a common story.

--David Brooks  https://www.interfaithamerica.org/eboo-patel-podcast-brooks/?utm_source=email_button&utm_campaign=podcast_11.29.22&utm_medium=email

Leroy, as always, thanks for a provocative entry. I think "both" Wittgensteins are important, the one of the Tractatus, which expected a correspondence between careful language and the world, and the one of the Investigations (your citation is page 194 in my German-English edition) which explores how language is actually used (and at the very outset corrects one of Augustine's many mistakes). It is hard to think of a technical philosopher of the first half of the 20th Century who is more important or more influential.

As for your larger point: Agreed: religion in not in facticity but in perspective. A famous debate on this point begins with John Wisdom's "Parable of the Unseen Gardener," with participants including Antony Flew, R  M Hare, Basil Mitchell, and I M Crombie, in the wake of Wittgenstein.

Lynda Sexson, in Ordinarily Sacred, 1982, says: "Religion . . . is the consecration of experience, or person, so that the person, or experience, us made whole (holy)." [p9] And she rightly notes that many--I would say most--cultures do not have an equivalent for the term. Religion is in fact a Western invention, a product of dualistic thinking, and as we understand it, is is particularly a product of the Protestant Reformation, as scholars like Talal Asad, Edward Said, and Tomoko Masuzawa. Sexson continues, religion "does not refer to a specialized category, but to the way that all reality is perceived and integrated." [p13]

I think the affliction of religion-blindness is an artifact of Western dualistic religion.

*In these two instances, I somehow was thinking of Peter DeVeau and got the spelling of Claivaux wrong, which are examples of wanting to get the book cleaned up in my revision.

Controversial in his own time, Bernard  hated the "new" independent scholarship of his time. He helped form the Knights Templer and thus perpetuated the idea of the Christian soldier. He was, at least on occasion, an anti-Semite (“It is a disgrace for Christ that a Jew sits on the throne of St. Peter’s"), promoted the 2d Crusade more vigorously than anyone (his sermon at Vezelay effectively launched that fiasco which indeed led to attacks on Jews), approved of genocide of the Wends; and instead of trying to understand the Cathars, denounced them. He was underhanded, vicious, cruel to Abelard (Cluny took Abelard in). While Bernard had some tight friendships and knew how to maneuver and advance politically, he could also be mean. I think of him as a nasty man.

He is a central figure of the first half of 12th Century in Europe, and his work effectively led to advances in many of the arts of civilization, including finance. He is widely honored; and my own church, the Episcopalian, celebrates his feast day.

In the 2008 Heller decision, the Supremes (5-4) let their obvious political opinion shape the Second Amendment by finding an individual right to keep and bear arms despite the actual text of the Second Amendment. It is ironic that the Supremes found in the Constitution an “inherent right of self-defense” then as it now appears the Supremes will rule that a woman may not be able to control her own body and the right of privacy is also undermined. All of this stems from another 5-4 decision, namely Bush v Gore in 2000, which prepared the way for the folly of Iraq and Afghanistan, the worsening climate crisis, rampant gerrymandering, the evisceration of voting rights, the overturning of campaign finance regulations (Citizens United, 2010), and this week’s grieving parents, joined by so many others in the nation’s unnecessary epidemic of gun violence.

Optimism is a political act. Those who benefit from the status quo are perfectly happy for us to think nothing is going to get any better. In fact, these days, cynicism is obedience. —Alex Steffen

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/opinion/great-books-socrates.html  JOHN MCWHORTER

I especially enjoyed teaching Immanuel Kant’s “Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals.” One of his categorical imperatives proposes an ultimate ethical obligation, to “act only according to that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.” That is not, mind you, the old Golden Rule, because “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” could mean that you decide to be lazy and be OK with other people being lazy as well. This fails under the categorical imperative because it would be a poor universal law — a society of layabouts would be a hungry and threadbare one.

However, the categorical imperative leaks when you try to apply it to, say, suicide (Is it wrong because we wouldn’t want all people to do it?) and lying (Is a lie intended to avert catastrophe inherently wrong?). What we ultimately get from Kant is how elusive any truly universal principle is, especially if we consider that different peoples worldwide might have differing perspectives on such matters.
 

I don't know if violent sports, affecting what happens after the event, are more of a "release valve" or an incitement to violence. I do think sports teams like NFL distort the meaning of civilization. Yes, I know some say there is an esthetic to football, but I think diving, gymnastics, even baseball and tennis are more beautiful. I've been active all my life but I don't favor sports of aggression.

. . . than listening to Mahler's Third itself, which is basically Mac 'n' Cheese gussied up in an Dime Store array of colored glass serving dishes on an endless kitchen counter in a foreclosed Santa Barbara mansion presently occupied by boys expelled from a frat house at one of the Claremont Colleges up the road. De gustibus non disputandum. The talk does confirm my long-held complaint that the Mahler malady was most powerfully insinuated by one of my own beloveds, Lennie B, for which I have not yet forgiven him. Even saints have their sins

Gents, it is passages like these below that cause me to re-evaluate the scholastic tradition as a forerunner of the Enlightenment Project which has a mania about putting things in categories. I see what Peter Lombard initiated in a new light (though still I admire him for several things), and I'm sorry to say (but P. will be delighted) that this arises not so much I think from Plato but rather Aristotle

Historically, /The Sentences /shaped the development of theology more than the Bible. If the Bible had been given greater weight, its narratives would have perhaps led more to metaphorical, rather than categorical and logical thinking about the Mystery. Of course Lombard was influenced by Abelard (an Aristotelian giving lip service to Plato), but I'm not ready to assess how much blame he deserves. Any of you have an opinion? And I may change mine!

I'm *bolding* what I am focusing on here.

In the meantime, thank God for the Cathedrals and art and glorious music which sustained the faithful better than the "straw" of Aquinas to which P. referred.

pages 15-16
From the late fourteenth century onwards, a covert form of rebellion preceded the Reformation in the form of the /devotio modema./ This  was a move of piety inward, disputing the necessity, if not the efficacy, of the outward and visible sacraments. By no means a repudiation of  the sacraments, it was an appeal to what seemed a more immediate  reality of inward encounter with the risen Lord. Although not necessarily a precursor of the Reformation, the /devotio moderna/ had many  characteristics in common with movements that surfaced in the sixteenth century.

Increasingly, the sacraments had been the subject of intellectual  debate. Some of this was necessitated by the proliferation of miraculous stories of bleeding hosts, kneeling donkeys, and Jews converted   by the consecrated hosts. For the first eight hundred years, there had been no systematic treatise on what believers experienced in the eucharist. For nearly twelve hundred years, there had been no consensus even on how many sacraments there were. Augustine had  mentioned several dozen. But this freedom had come to an end in the  thirteenth century with*the scholastic urge to define things. A major impetus came through what became the standard theological textbook, **/The Sentences, /**written about 1150 by Peter Lombard*, briefly  bishop of Paris. Lombard tells us that “the sacraments of the new law  . . . are: baptism, confirmation, the bread of blessing, that is, the  eucharist, penance, extreme unction, orders, marriage.“ Yet as late as 1179, the Third Lateran Council mentioned “enthronement of ecclesiastical persons or the institution of priests, . . . burying the dead” as  sacraments."

This freedom of interpretation was ended by the later scholastics. The seven that Lombard enumerated became definitive, and the  Catholic Council of Trent said no “more, or less, than seven.” Lombard had said that extreme unction “is said to have been instituted by  the apostles” (James 5). A momentous shift occurred in the thirteenth-century agreement that all seven were instituted by God. Thomas  Aquinas tells us that “since, therefore, the power of the sacraments is from God alone, it follows that God alone can institute the sacraments.” This statement was taken with utmost seriousness by the  Protestant Reformers. The freedom that had prevailed for three-fifths  of church history to speak of a wide range of activities as sacraments  and not have to base them on institution by God had ended in the  thirteenth century. Augustine could call the ashes of Ash Wednesday a  sacrament; by the thirteenth century one could not.

[This is a technical discussion I retain but follows earlier exposition.] And the scholastics, in trying to fit all seven sacraments into a procrustean bed of form (words), matter (physical elements), and minister had imposed on them definitions which were not intrinsic to them. . . . .

 A more serious problem lies in the fact that abstract theology now  shapes experience rather than vice versa. It may be optimistic to say  that in earlier periods the experience of the divine in the sacraments  had shaped reflection upon them. But the scholastics, in their rational  probing into the effects of grace in each sacrament, reversed the equation that praying shapes believing.[In Latin: /Lex orandi, lex credendi/ -- which is exactly the way I would describe my experience with the Eucharist almost every Sunday, a profound deepening of my understanding of the divine, myself, and the world., mostly in ways that language cannot easily express.] Very likely this shift never happened in the East, which to this day has refused to define how many  sacraments there are or the precise operation of grace in them.

page  81 (2nd pgraf for P.)

But the Enlightenment relished this idea of making sacraments
solely a backward look to biblical times. [I think what White means here is that the experience of the sacred, of God, is not a concern of the present world.] *To the worldview of the**
**Enlightenment, anything that smacked of the supernatural was highly suspect.* Zwingli’s concept of the presence of Christ by his divine nature in the assembly was too supernatural for the desacralized mind of the Enlightenment. *Biblical literalism and the Enlightenment made good companions *because they both preferred to relegate divine activity to the first century. [In the case of fundamentalists, this would need some clarification.]

Yet in the midst of this worldview, the Wesley brothers took a
strong stand for the supernatural character of the eucharist as a means of grace. Taking their cue from Daniel Brevint, dean of Lincoln Cathedral in the previous century, they wrote what is still the greatest collection of eucharistic hymns in the English language, /Hymns on the Lord's Supper./ Published in 1745, it contains 166 hymns and is the best index of the Wesleys’ experience of the eucharist. . . .

(And about children and the Eucharist: -- p93:) In the West, until the twelfth century, children were regularly communed with wine at their baptism; the East has communicated children throughout history. Others found more persuasive a theological argument: baptism places one within the church fully and completely, so exclusion from the Lord’s table simply because of age is an illicit form of excommunication. This has further implications in terms of those with mental disabilities. Is the ability to think rationally a prerequisite for receiving communion? . . .

Finally -- one of the questions about sacraments you were interested in is whether the sacraments are best understood as primarily a cognitive activity (they are merely signs) or whether they are causative (they effect an actual change). The AnaBaptists hold the former (which is why baptism is reserved for adults.) Interestingly, Roman Catholics withhold the Eucharist from toddlers as if it were a cognitive activity but baptize infants as if it were a causative  event. I think both are causative, myself. Some might find a parallel in this pair with the formation (liturgical churches) v. conversion (Anabaptist and fundamentalist) access to grace.

The question you ask is not exactly quick to answer, and books and other resources will do a better job than I can.
 

For example, for US holidays, try

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_United_States

More detail about Christian liturgical churches which have an extensive calendar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgical_year

Books:

Bud Heckman, ed. InterActive Faith: The Essential Interreligious Community-Building Handbook. Skylight Paths, 2008. ISBN 13:978-1-59473-237-9  In the section on different faiths, you will find information about holidays.
 

Stuart M. Matlins, ed., Arthur J. Magida, ed. How to Be a Perfect Stranger: The Essential Religious Etiquette Handbook, 4th Edition. SkyLight Paths, 2006. ISBN-10: 159473140332,  This answers many of the questions you ask, but there are other books along this line as well, such as Gatle Colquitt White: Believers and Beliefs: A Practical Guide to Religious Etiquette for Business and Social Occasions.

and more specialized in hospital and other situations, the book I was involved with: Jeffers Steven, Michael E. Nelson, Vern Barnet, Michael C Brannigan: The Essential Guide to Religious Traditions and Spirituality for Health Care Providers, ISBN-13: 978-1846195600, ISBN-10: 1846195608

In sum, just ask in an unfamiliar situation: "I don't know the proper greeting to offer you for (this occasion). Would you teach it to me so I may offer my respectful greeting?"

Vern
 
 
 
 

Start at about 3 and a half minutes. If you watch through about minute 21, you may get the flavor of postmodern pragmatism. A bit further, he presents both sides of the debate between James and Clifford, and postmodern pragmatism is clarified, I think, as he proceeds. As I mentioned, I think Rorty is much clearer than the French postmodernists and infinitely more practical. (He alludes to a couple, and to Nietzsche in passing in the Q&A.) My reservations about Rorty arise from my own understanding of (at least some, but not much of Fundamentalist) religion as largely a ritual and mythic activity providing an understanding of the world of meaning, ie, the sacred, which I do not think he adequately addresses. {The video has an audio problem at about 43:30 but is restored after about 47 minutes. The lecture ends at about 49 minutes, then a Q & A, with some nice quips, I thought, but you have to plow through inaudible and tedious questions.}

V

. . .  It reinforces my problem with confusing religious institutions with religion, itself a nearly impossible category in the US, at least. I do weddings, almost weekly, and I often hear "We're spiritual but not religious," which means "we don't want you to think ill of us just because we don't go to church; we're really good people." I think this kind of survey makes it very difficult to understand what people might mean by their responses other than the obvious fact that religious institutions and forms and traditional faith questions or propositions have decreasing salience in how people think about what gives their lives meaning. Of course I think this development is sad, and is the inevitable result of liberal Enlightenment conceptions of religion and the concomitant influence of the Capitalist Gospel of Greed.

Constructively, an open-ended question directed toward experiences of the transcendent (a perfect baseball pitch for a boy of summer, the first time seeing the ocean, falling in love, holding a newborn, a sexual experience, an aesthetic experience of particular power, a resolution of a problem, communing at Mass, being with a loved one dying, etc) might reveal that even under the mire of a corrupt culture, apprehension of the sacred is possible. I think there are some studies that may show most people are sensitive to such experiences. Longitudinal research would be pretty interesting.

 The Interfaith Council recently named some of its partners as the Crescent Peace Society, Dialogue Institute, KC for Refugees, Heartland Coalition Against Gun Violence, Give Seven Days, Jewish Vocational Services, Heartland Alliance of Divine Love, United Religions Initiative, and the Interfaith Center at Miami University, several of which are linked from my organization's home page for easy contact. I have also sometimes found Global Ties to be surprisingly helpful. I am so glad to know this kind of information is useful for you.

> On Dec 1, 2021, at 9:19 PM, Vern Barnet <vern@cres.org> wrote:
>
> No doubt the American Gospel of Greed affected these kids before they were five. Still you have to wonder if they were just a little to exercised and got out of hand in their disputes as to whether Charles Darwin or Alfred Russel Wallace deserved credit for the theory of evolution, or whether Franz Hals really had no understanding of the people he painted or if his perception was just overshadowed by Rembrandt, or perhaps whether string theory would ultimately pave the way to a Grand Unified Theory of Everything.  Whatever the brawl was about, the media sure does not dare to tell us, I see. Ah, a late report just in: the kids were disputing whether Hobbes or Bregman has the better view of human nature. The bad pennies drove the good pennies out. It happens. Look at Congressional retirements.
> V

on December 1, 2021 at 1:03 pm | ReplyV ern Barnet
One reason I decided to move from a little town in Pennsylvania to the KC area in 1975 was because I had read about Joseph D. McNamara, chief of KC police, in the national press. I thought, wow!, here is a city interested in rethinking the whole crime thing. McNamara didn’t last. What’s the story? Just a better job in San Jose?
 

on December 1, 2021 at 4:50 pm | Replyjimmycsays
I almost got into that, Vern, but the post was already long enough. McNamara, as I recall, basically got run out of town by resistors from within the ranks who didn’t like the changes he made and was attempting to make…That’s the problem the new outsider will face. He or she will need to make significant changes, and the union and non-union employees will undoubtedly screech and gnash their teeth. It’s going to be tough, and the chief is going to need strong backing from the police board. This will be a real test of the board’s willingness to see changes implemented.

That’s another reason I’d like to see a woman in the job: I think a strong woman would have a better chance of getting significant changes made than a man. The board might be more inclined to “have her back.”

211113

It is so great to hear from you. I'm sure your life is pretty busy, so I appreciate your taking the trouble to write. Learning independence from parents is tricky, and mistakes on all sides can happen even with the very best of intentions.  But it's part of the way we learn, I guess, as we negotiate our ways through the uncertainties and puzzles and new situations.
 

I am so interested in your current Bio major. That can open up unto so many possibilities, and even medicine is such a wide and growing field.  May I tell you a story about the high school biology class I took when I was a Christian fundamentalist? I really loved biology but I did not believe in evolution. One day my class had to take a city-wide standardized test. On it were questions like, "When did eukaryotes first appear in the fossil record?" I was torn about how answer. So I gave the expected answer and added an asterisk with a note to questions like this at the bottom of the answer sheet: "I am giving the answer I was taught because I want a good grade, but I don't believe it because I believe in the Bible." When the tests came back, my teacher said I got the highest score in the entire city; but instead of feeling vindicated, I was embarrassed because in the intervening weeks, I had read Tom Paine's Age of Reason (which pretty much destroyed my respect for the Bible) and then Bertrand  Russell's "Why I am Not a Christian," and became an atheist. That was a very turbulent time for me, both in my head and with my friends. The enduring result of that experience was that I learned I could be wrong, and that, I hope, continues to keep me tolerant and a bit more humble than the arrogant "I know it all" kid that I hadbeen

{{{{{{{In Kansas City, we have one of the world's great science and technology libraries, and while most of the collection is focused on the most up-to-date research, there is an amazing historical, rare-books collection. One of the books is the first edition of Galileo's Starry Messenger (1610), with hand-corrections by Galileo himself, and it was a thrill to put on white gloves and turn the pages when I was visiting there one time. But more to biology: I had written something in the column I wrote for  the Kansas City Star every Wednesday about Darwin's Origin of Species, and a civic leader challenged me on it. I was pretty sure I had done my research, but when questioned, I decided to inspect the first edition of the book at the library. This time I was right.
 
 

Yes, one of the worst parts of aging is the loss of friends.  And the pandemic made it impossible even to attend in person those funerals/memorial services that were held. I don't go to live musical events anymore, and will not until the pandemic ceases. In these times, I don't know many pastors who would be able to extend themselves outside of their own parishes. Because of my hearing loss, I find phone conversations excruciating, and I am not very good at giving spiritual support in any case, as you might remember. We pretty much talked passed each other, if not politely scoffed at the viewpoint the other expressed. I am no good to you because I think it is your quest for spirituality that itself is the cause of suffering. In distress, it is very difficult to practice gratitude, the only salvation I know. If you cannot find someone to listen to you about your spiritual interests, maybe you can find people to whom you can give the gift of listening to them; for giving attention to others may give you some relief by lessening the focus on your own cravings. You have befriended me in many ways, so I am sorry not to be available to you because of these circumstances. Perhaps this will seem that I am, indeed, dead to you, but know that I cherish you as a person, even as I recognize my limits to be of any help at this time.
With sincere best wishes,

I treasure your column as a thoughtful conservative contribution to public discourse. But I was sorely disappointed by your Oct 12 column. I am glad Matt Navarro wrote in response (today's paper). The concern I "felt" when I read your column was that you were on a track parallel to those who won't say Trump lost but will say a lot of people are concerned about the integrity of the election, when the reason people are concerned about the integrity of the election when there is no legal or objective cause for such concern is that people say that people are concerned about the integrity of the election. Please don't do this kind of stuff again. I'm not sure I agree with Navarro that you were "gaslighting," but your column was obfuscation, which surprised me because you usually are such a clear thinker, straightforward. (For example, I really valued your column about Hotel Bravo even though I disagreed with it.) Please don't sully your reputation with such obvious sophistry.

A faithful reader,
Vern Barnet

The Best Way to Explain the G.O.P. Is Found in the W.W.E.
Feb. 26, 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/26/opinion/vince-mcmahon-wwe-trump-kayfabe.html
neokayfabe they couldn’t always figure out if what they were seeing was real or not. The human mind is easily exploited when it’s trying to swim the choppy waters between fact and fiction.

Old kayfabe was built on the solid, flat foundation of one big lie: that wrestling was real. Neokayfabe, on the other hand, rests on a slippery, ever-wobbling jumble of truths, half-truths, and outright falsehoods, all delivered with the utmost passion and commitment.

To answer your question. I am still a UU minister, officially retired, but I maintain my status with the denomination and continue to meet monthly with my UU colleagues in the area who accept my Episcopalian lay status. I just see no need to burn that bridge. During the bulk of my community ministry, I evaded the rare question about my own faith because I wanted to be understood as promoting all the faiths I gathered into the original Interfaith Council -- A to Z --  American Indian, Baha'i, Buddhist, Christian Protestant, Christian Roman Catholic, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Sufi, Unitarian Universalist, Wiccan, Zoroastrian. (I tried, but originally was unsuccessful, to include Christian Orthodox, but later that happened.) This helped give me the credibility  that led to the KC Star hiring me to write a weekly "Faith and Beliefs" column for 18 years, during which time I deepened my understanding of Christianity as well as other traditions which accorded me various honors. For the first anniversary of 9/11, with dozens of churches and the many non-Christian faiths and some civic groups, I organized a day-long observance (parts of which were shown on CBS-TV), and most of that was held at the Cathedral. I was impressed with the hospitality shown there to all faiths, including an interfaith water ritual in the chancel. Separately, although I was probably theologically closest to Huayen Buddhism, I could increasingly understand Christianity as a story that resolves, or at least holds in tension, both the wonder and horror of existence, unfurled in a beautiful liturgy, conveyed through many art-forms, developing, confirming my own sense of gratitude regardless how I am feeling, with ways of expressing that in service to others. I  also have a cultural affinity, perhaps, for the Anglican tradition of literature from before John Donne to W H Auden and beyond. (T S Eliot, born in St Louis, of a long line of distinguished Unitarians, became an Anglican, and if he can go that way, so can I.) I feel immeasurably deepened each year by practicing as an Episcopalian -- without abandoning my love of other faith traditions which continue to enrich my soul. This is why it is easy for me to say I hope others love their religion as much as I love mine. This is but a sketch of  my "journey," and thank you for indulging such a long sketch!
 
 
 
 

Gents,

While it would have been an interesting episode you visiting me in jail, the judge found me NOT GUILTY at my trial today. The prosecution had maybe 30-40 photos to use against me; and even after I stipulated that I owned the property, they introduced all sorts of documents (one of which had your signature on it, Joe), which was, like the whole damn thing, a colossal waste of time. I had a bunch of photos ready myself, but never got the chance to show them, and I was way over-prepared, and in my own stupid way, I kinda regret that I did not have a chance to present my carefully prepared arguments. I think that the inspector appeared incompetent when he tried to introduce photos of the Post Office mess as if this were my yard.

Again, what a waste of taxpayer resources, judge, inspector, research department, prosecutor, etc etc, plus the hours of my preparation and aggravation as a citizen. The City has serious problems to address, not some fool charge that my sidewalk is "partially obstructed." Ben and I were walking yesterday at 37th and Belleview -- gorgeous, what, maybe million dollar, homes -- and such a charge would have been far more justified around there.

I don't know why this inspector is after me -- maybe businesses that want to buy my house file complaints to force me out. Paul, you, who used to be nearby, know all about unethical complaints -- and moved out of the City. A loss to us still here.

As I sat on a bench at Ilus Davis Park before going into the courthouse across the street, I noticed the -- shall we say apparent -- violation of the ordinance against unattended growth. Some of the weeds were taller than me. I took a couple into the courtroom and used them as part of my opening statement.

I may have been found not guilty, but I still feel the process tries to victimize citizens. I know I am not alone in being harassed by incompetent or unscrupulous code inspectors. Let the good ones thrive as they help preserve homes and make a better City. And I wish out-of-state owners were subject to the court. The house next door to me has a tree now over six feet tall growing out of a basement window well. California owner.

OK, too long a report. But now you won't have to listen to me bitch about this. Until again next year.

Vern

PS. In case you missed it, I attach The Star editorial about the City inspector at the butterfly garden.
 

 Dear Bishop Marty,

I am a writer, but  any competence with language seems to fail me now. Of course I want to thank you for your leadership of the Diocese through what might be considered normal challenges -- and also through what seems to me (from what little I know) unexpected, rough waters, and your sailing through successfully.

But I want to thank you for something more elusive, which I do not understand, but which I feel keenly.

I did not like you very much the night you baptized me, though I respected your office and cherish that primal occasion. But as I began to see you working, a human fulfilling a sacred office with genuine care for others and the institution of the Church, my mere dutiful respect turned to growing admiration. Your assignments to me were gifts. My soul was tacking this way long before that Maundy Thursday when you and I washed each other's feet. So at that service, I said that I love you. It was safe to say that then because others were around. If I had been asked to explain what I meant then, I might have constructed some verbiage about "Christian love" so that it did not seem weird.

But as I try to understand it, such an explanation does not do justice to the way the affection is for you, personally. Yet not exactly personally, since who you are I do not know well at all, though your unexpected personal attention to me has touched me. Those touches were light but felt deeply. So while the love is inherently personal, it is also interwoven with the office of Bishop. I know a little about psychological projections, as in psychotherapy and such, but that secular explanation seems insufficient. It is something more mystical. The story of apostolic succession may be part of it. And I know about Hindu gurus, but the love I have for you is not that, either. I've thought about Ibn Arabi's understanding of the attributes of God reflected in humans, and certainly I have seen Christ reflected in you. Such a love is fulfilling in itself. I need nothing from you. But I will always treasure those reflections.The love is a kind of divine gratitude wrapped up in an urgent wish for you to be supremely well, a state which, as children of God, as baptized Christians, we all are given. So why should I have this wish for you when it is already assured? This is like a Zen koan.

I do not seek to have my confusion dissolved, yet I wish I could write more clearly about it for you. So in my human confusion inside a relaxed confidence of God's grace, I say simply . . . I love you: Thank you, with every good wish.

Your bother in Christ,
Vern Barnet

On 9/10/2021 12:00 PM, Bishop Marty wrote:

 Vern, your expressed thoughts always strike deep into the center of my being. So, I thank you for the profundity of your message to me.  I am also grateful for the several times you have sent to me gracious words of approbation. Now, I am grateful for this latest expression of affection. It means much to me. In return, may I acknowledge anew that I love you and this diocesan family deeply.  Thank you. May God always light your path.

 +Marty
 
 

COMMENT ON Used to Be UU: The Systemic Attack on UU Liberalism: What You Need to Know, What You Need to Do
by Frank Casper and Jay Kiskel, 2021
Posted on Amazon 2021 July 28

     I quit the UUMA after learning about the way Todd Eklof (whom I have never met) was treated, but with earlier encounters with the self-righteous group-think apparently in UU leadership these days. Still, my personal experience with the UUMA, problematic as it has been, is comparatively slight, though is consistent with the outrageous behavior of UUMA officials reported in this book.
     But I wonder if the fancy arguments about Critical Race Theory and Postmodernism are basically a subtext (or supertext) for power struggles arising from the tendency, so evident from the 1967 General Assembly onward, to turn the denomination away from its focus on supporting local congregations to a political agenda, varying over the years in hue and tint.
     I am sorry that the authors of this book present such a cramped and misleading view of Postmodernism, citing writers of no particular academic distinction in the field, though I cannot dispute that some noxious variants of "Postmodernism" may be used in UU theological education. (Richard Rorty, for example, a moral and political philosopher worthy of admiration, is often classified as a Postmodernist in the tradition of Pragmatist John Dewey.) The idea that valuing reason is an Enlightenment gift ignores much of world history, and specifically the long Western tradition from the ancient Greeks though Aquinas forward. The Enlightenment in many ways distorted religion and corrupted society (as William Blake saw so well so early), and the very first of the Six Sources, by specifying "transcending mystery" corrects and supplements one of the many defects of the Enlightenment project. Similarly, the implication that the idea of democracy originates from the Enlightenment is quite arguable.
     All this is unnecessary to the main point the authors seem to be making, and which needs to be made. I wish the writers had minimized the philosophical arguments and focused even more on the power struggle. Those who wish to recover some integrity for the UUA need not respond so much to the way the authoritarians use Critical Race Theory to define the argument. Why let the authoritarians establish the grounds on which the contest takes place?
     Nonetheless, this book is an extraordinary exploration of the crises affecting Unitarian Universalism. Most people have some sense of fairness, and the manifest unfairness the authoritarians have exhibited, and the unfair control they seek, would be the grounds on which the contest might be most easily transparent, whatever the outcome. Invoking Martin Luther King Jr's understanding of, and vision for, America, may be a better platform for discussion than distortions of Critical Race Theory.
     As a retired UU minister who worships as a layman in a more friendly denomination (integrated in all ways without the power struggles the UUs have perpetuated), it cost me little to quit the UUMA, though I cherish friendships among colleagues. I worry for those who have been slandered and abused by the authoritarians. This book is of great value to inform and arouse those who wish a moral and effective denominational order in keeping with the Fifth Principle, to embrace the living tradition of the liberal faith.
     The liberal tradition seems a better path to the "Beloved Community" than the road the self-important critics of honest discussion who want to use their power to suppress questions and the democratic method. The danger for those who shut down honest exchange the disaster that follows from playing in the Karpman Drama Triangle where the victim (or the rescuer) becomes the oppressor. (Wikipedia has a good summary of the Karpman Drama Triangle.) The danger for the rest of us is finding ways to avoid entanglement in the game while seeking to transmit a heritage of great value to the future.
     The Rev Vern Barnet, DMn
     minister emeritus, Center for Religious Experience and Study

2021/Jul/28 --
 Bayerische Staatsoper (Bavarian State Opera)  -- Idomeneo

1.

One of my favorite tenors, Michael Polenzani (an American!) is singing the title role in Mozart's opera seria "Idomeneo" in a free German production. He has fantastic breath control and can sing both robustly and tenderly, in both classical and romantic styles. So I "tuned in" this morning after Ben and I got back from our walk and I put aside some of the stuff on my desk that can wait a while. So far I think the production is stupid and annoying, the camera work distracting, etc. The singing (and music) is utterly glorious, and the clash of emotions begins this opera. (Several characters so far are in conflict with themselves, one, for example,  Ilia, a Trojan princess who is in love with Idamante, the son of Idomeneo, the Greek (Crete) king, and feels that loving him is a betrayal of her love of her country and father.)  Idamante, a prince of upright and generous character, is told that his father, whom he loves but has not seen for years because of the war, has just been ship-wrecked and is dead. Throughout the opera the various gods, particularly Neptune, are cursed and praised. As it turns out Idomeneo vows to Neptune that if Neptune will save him, he will sacrifice the first person he sees when he arrives home. Idamante now is on the shore, lamenting his dear father's death, when his father, Idomeneo, appears, hears his son's lament and love for him and realizes he is bound to kill his own beloved son. When they both recognize each other, Idomeneo will have nothing to do with his son and does not explain his vow, and Idamante's joy at finding his father alive turns to confusion and perplexity about being rejected. This, just 38 minutes into the 3-hour opera, is where I had to stop because the emotion was so overwhelming (even though it is expressed is such a stylized fashion), I needed a breather. I love this opera, and through twists and turns, it has a happy ending for all but one character.

2.

Finished the opera. Absolutely silly and distracting staging, with the singing and the orchestra superb anyhow. I was hardly thrilled to see Idomeneo given a sandwich and a can of beer. And Elettra's death scene: was that suicide by grease or chocolate or what? The Met's production, when she collapsed from her own jealously, was so superior to this gimmick. Earlier the lights flashing on the audience made no sense. So much extraneous activity on the stage throughout much of the performance. Are opera lovers in Munich just distract-able tic-tok kids? Staging and choreography (not to mention the stupid costumes, if you can call overalls costumes) should support and even enhance the acting and the music, instead of pulling our attention away from the moving drama with magnificent acting. The execution scene was well-staged, and again I had to get a grip on myself to continue.Polenzani's performance was well-applauded, but I have to say that the entire cast was excellent as was the conducting, though I did find the use of a modern piano in one place distracting, almost to say <See, this is like a Mozart piano concerto>. I'm not absolutely sure, but I recall this was an area, not a recitativo secco.

3.

Thanks to Patrick for directing me to free music now that the Met series has ended.

I can't figure out those Germans. German productions I have seen are gimmicky to distraction. Elucidate, Patrick.

I tickle to think what they will do to TRISTAN UND ISOLDE, as maybe this is the opera that could use some distraction.

Vern

Conductor
    Constantinos Carydis
Production
    Antú Romero Nunes
Choreography
    Dustin Klein
Set Design
    Phyllida Barlow
Costume Design
    Victoria Behr
Lighting
    Michael Bauer
Set Design Assistant
    Anna Schöttl
Dramaturgy
    Rainer Karlitschek
Choruses
    Stellario Fagone

Idomeneo
    Matthew Polenzani
Idamante
    Emily D'Angelo
Ilia
    Olga Kulchynska
Elettra
    Hanna-Elisabeth Müller
Arbace
    Martin Mitterrutzner
Oberpriester Poseidons
    Caspar Singh
Die Stimme (Orakel)
    Callum Thorpe
Chorus
    Chor der Bayerischen Staatsoper
Chorus
    Extrachor der Bayerischen Staatsoper

Patrick--

What a great piece of writing! This article confirms a number of complaints I had about the trashy Idomeneo production that I didn't mention in my rant. I was interested in the complaint that too many opera goers don't know music, don't know chamber music, etc. Do you think this is true in the US?

(Questions,quibbles about the piece: I don't know enough about Corelli's acting, but I have to say I think he was a fantastic singer. Also I don't know what third-rate Handel operas he might be thinking of. I love all the Handel I've seen.)

I cannot join you in what seems a wholesale condemnation of Peter Sellars. OK, much of his stuff is trash, but his direction of  Nixon in China for the Met was fine, and I would like to see his Idomeneo -- https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2019-08-22/peter-sellars-idomeneo-salzburg-yuval-sharon-lohengrin-bayreuth . (This review errs in saying Idomeneo is the only Mozart opera Sellars has done.) While I prefer a traditional Don Giovanni, as troubled as I am about the opera itself, his setting as a NY gang scene does illuminate some aspects of the work. Also I can't complain about his libretto of Dr Atomic.

Anyhow, the article you linked me to makes me appreciate the Met even more. It sometimes goes astray in its productions, but mostly does either traditional or justifiable Regietheatre,as for example Agrippina.

Thanks, thanks, thanks for sending me to this amazing article. It is comfort in my prejudiced old age.

V

Sorry, in my opinion, this article is a mass of ignorance, confusion, and distortion. The idea that "Panpsychism is gaining steam in science communities" is risible.

An outline of what I think:

1. Everything insofar as it interacts with other things, is "conscious" if by "consciousness" you mean the ability to respond. A salt suspended in water will tend to grow into a crystal. A ball hit by a bat will maybe deliver a home run. I think this is a rather trivial meaning of "consciousness," but I grant the point offered in the article's childish survey of ideas. Organelles like mitochondria and organisms like trees have a more sophisticated "consciousness" as they "relate" to others of their kind or to their environment, with what might even look like, to use anthropomorphic language, a sense of "community." A classic example, of course, is an ant colony. I do not think it is terribly useful to bring "science" into justifying the holy sense of awe humans may feel about such phenomena, as when some native Americans may, to movingly, talk about the "rock people."

2. Degrees of "consciousness" as we more ordinarily use the term can be asserted of creatures that have some sense of self, likely members of the Corvidae family, the Cephalopoda, certainly many mammals such as elephants, dogs, chimps, whales, and homo sapiens. A sense of self is possible when a creature not only has a model understanding of the world (such as up and down, what is good to eat, etc) but that model includes (recursively) oneself. Thus I have a picture, a model of the world which includes John, Patrick, Paul, Luke, and mountains, trigonometry, history, peaches, clocks, weather, and so forth -- and myself, which John, Patrick, Paul, Luke perceive differently, and in some respects may be more apt than my own model of myself.

3. The sense of self is always incomplete and fragmentary, and the notion of identity -- embedded in the idea of an eternal soul -- is misleading, of necessity because of its incompleteness. We even have expressions like, "I am of two minds about that."

4. Religious ideas like "soul" or "atman" can be both beautiful and destructive, just as identity politics can be both instructive and calamitous.

5. Myself (myselves, better) as I write prefer the ur-Buddhist analysis, which pretty much agrees with recent psycological studies, namely, a person is a complex of many consciousnesses (not to mention "body memory, etc), and at death all that falls apart, even as in life it is constantly shifting and changing. I like the metaphor I've offered before of the mind as a corporation with competing departments and shifting CEOs with changing attention.

6. Technically, I am anti-reductionist and I am much closer to the ancient Hebrew understanding of the person (there was no thought of individual survival after death: immortality was a group thing) than to the dualism afflicting us from Plato, Augustine, and Descartes. I am fond of Michael Polanyi's notion of tacit knowledge. In practice, I think it is more useful to think about character as Aristotle put it, what a person chooses and shuns. The soul this not a thing; the soul is a succession of activities. Instead of the distinction between body and soul, I am intrigued by polarities like substance and function.

7. Arguments of course most welcome.

Yours truly but so imperfectly,
Vern the Void

on July 21, 2021 at 10:39 pm | ReplyVERN BARNET
Agreed. And what about the MO Lottery? Isn’t there a similar dynamic of preying on those among the most vulnerable? It is one thing for “riverboat” private “enterprise” to promote gambling, bad enough; but I think it is wicked for governments to do so — even for a worthy purpose. The devil appears as an angel of light.
 

on July 22, 2021 at 8:18 am | Replyjimmycsays
I agree with you completely about the lottery, Vern. Once the “riverboat” wakes hit Missouri, it was only a matter of time before the state got its grubby hands into the action…How many times have you been behind some poor-looking people at QT and had to wait while the clerk rang up their cigarettes, six-pack and lottery tickets?

Our former city logo and slogan, "City of Fountains, Heart of  the Nation," and water collected from our City and area fountains, have been meaningful in numerous interfaith activities, including events with international visitors. So thank you for your service on the Foundation. Here is a hint of this: https://www.cres.org/water/

So let my love of our fountains be clear as I complain about the environmentally offensive fountain in Mill Creek Park. I have walked there almost daily for decades. But only after a couple years of these walks did I really look at the fountain. I found a violent celebration of human subjugation of nature, a product of industrial arrogance, a blasphemy of environmental concerns.

The splash and play of the water is what we notice and enjoy, but the degradation of the planet is its message as it elevates humans over a more wholesome ecological spirit.

This is why I protested naming it for a man of peace. https://www.cres.org/fountain.htm

I love being able to walk easily to four substantial parks from where I live in Westport, and being able to brag about my City of Fountains. I worry that the civic spirit you and the others exemplify may not be as effectively received by succeeding generations, and the heritage of service may be diminished. Still, celebrating folks like Anita is a way of reminding us how community is made.

The "Godly Play" story-telling 3-day training. Each of us 12 had to learn and tell a GP story. I was one of the last to tell a story. I was really intimidated by many of the others. I was really tired and felt woefully unprepared as I was making so many mistakes in rehearsing the text and the actions. On the last day after lunch, it was my time to tell my assigned story. It was an amazing experience. I woke up at 4 this morning and figured out that when I told my story, from the first phrase, "Everything has changed," to the end (maybe 20 minutes), I was in a trance broken only slightly by one time when I, for split second, asked myself, "What comes next?" and one other time when I realized I had left out one part and then effortlessly added it back in. Almost all that time there was no me, there was simply the story telling itself. When the story ended, and I became aware of the others in the room, it was like waking up. At one point during the debriefing, I got pretty teary.

When some of the others told their very different stories but with the same style we were learning, I realize I was also in a light trance, but not as deep as when I told mine. This was completely unexpected.

I thought what I've been doing with the 3-5 year olds for several years now was Godly Play, but it's been pseudo-Godly Play, worthy in itself, but not like what I now know is possible.

1. Israel created Hamas to weaken the Palestinian authority.
2. Hamas is popular in Gaza because of its effective social services. Its military wing is only a part of Hamas.
3. Israel started this violence with the evictions of Arab residents in Jerusalem.
4. Netanyahu likely benefits politically from the tumoil as he faces corruption charges and the contest for the leadership of the country.
5. Nothing substantially can be done about these horrors until Israel rejects its colonial expansion and oppression. This will not happen until American Jews (and at least some "Evangelical" Christians) are able to break the power of AIPAC and such.

So why do I praise The Times for publishing something I absolutely find repulsive (as I find many of the columns by Bret Stephens? Because I want to know what thoughtful people on all sides are thinking.

I am glad The Times also published this:

OPINION
GUEST ESSAY
Bernie Sanders: The U.S. Must Stop Being an Apologist for the Netanyahu Government
May 14, 2021
----
 

Of course I condemn antisemitism. Of course there is no excuse to attack Jews. Nor is there an excuse to attack Palestinians or deprive Arabs of their homes in Jerusalem. I also condemn the Israeli instigation of the recent violent conflict which left 219 people dead in Gaza, at least 63 are children, according to its health ministry. Of the 10 people killed in Israel, two children are among the dead, the country's medical service says. I condemn violence against Asians and Pacific Islanders. I condemn American structural racism. I condemn Islamophobia. I condemn the genocide of the American Indian. I condemn all forms of prejudice, cruelty, terrorism, assault, rape, murder, exploitation, oppression, and such. In short, I condemn sin. Is that so surprising?
 
 

Today I took the last large tomato, perfect still in its ripeness, from the produce bin in the fridge and beheld it as a holy thing to be sacrificed. My knife cut thick strips and placed one and a half on a large slice of bread covered with a nut butter mixture touched with horseradish sauce and covered it with another slice of bread on a waiting plate. The half slice remaining went naked into my mouth. The other slices were variously teased with pesto and mayo and went directly in happy succession into my enjoyment. I then divided the sandwich in two. With pause and admiration and with the rigorous contemplation of an Episcopalian, consumed in proper course the two halves of the sandwich.

Yesterday I finished off the second of five jars of tomato-lentil soup from the freezer. I had added a bit too much hot pepper to that particular jar and was glad to alternate my spoon from the soup to the dish of yoghurt which cooled my tongue, ready for the next delicious assaut it would receive.

Also in the freezer is a jar of cooked, pureed tomatoes for maybe tomato-garlic soup. Did I convey the idea that tomatoes are a love of my life, the objects of veneration, and mystical orbs of mystery, possibility, and intrigue?

Vern

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/opinion/william-barr-durham-report.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/03/biden-china-balloon-foreign-policy/

The Chiefs proudly broke racial barriers. Kansas City erected them.By Mark Dent February 9, 2023
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/09/kansas-city-chiefs-redlining-super-bowl-teams-1960s/

Free for what?
     In the GOP rebuttal to the president's State of the Union address, Arkansas Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, in part, "Most Americans simply want to live their lives in freedom and peace." Every time I hear a Republican say "freedom," I feel sick. What freedoms?
     Not the freedom to get an abortion. Not the freedom to identify as LGBTQ. Not the freedom to get whatever books you want to read from the library. Not the freedom to learn all of our country's history, even if it supposedly makes white people look bad. Not the freedom to practice a religion that's not Christianity.
     The only real freedoms today's GOP seems to care about is that you're able to have as many guns as you want and that you can carry them wherever you want without having any idea of how use them — which in and of itself takes away everyone else's freedom to feel safe in any public place.
     So again, I ask: What freedoms?   - Tom Meek, Lee's Summit  LtrToEditor KCSTAR 230212

The Best Way to Explain the G.O.P. Is Found in the W.W.E.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/26/opinion/vince-mcmahon-wwe-trump-kayfabe.html

DOMINION v FOX
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/redacted-documents-in-dominion-fox-news-case/dca5e3880422426f/full.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/business/media/fox-dominion-lawsuit.html  Fox Stars Privately Expressed Disbelief About Election Fraud Claims. ‘Crazy Stuff.’ The comments, by Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and others, were released as part of a defamation suit against Fox News by Dominion Voter Systems.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/opinion/fox-news-dominion.html   What Fox News Says When You’re Not Listening
{ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html }
{ https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-tonight.htm }

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html How Tucker Carlson Reshaped Fox News — and Became Trump’s Heir

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/26/opinion/fox-news-lies-dominion.html  
Why Fox News Lied to the Viewers It ‘Respects’

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/02/25/business/media/fox-news-dominion-tucker-carlson.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/04/us/politics/panic-fox-news-2020-election.html  
After Fox News called the 2020 presidential election for Joe Biden, top executives and anchors met to figure out how they had messed up.Not because they got the key call wrong, but because they were right. Inside the panicked damage control at Fox News as the hard right lashed out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/03/business/media/fox-dominion-conservative-media.html
Conservative Media Pay Little Attention to Revelations About Fox News. -- Even in today’s highly partisan media world, experts said, the lack of coverage about the private comments of Fox’s top executives and hosts stands out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/business/media/fox-dominion-2020-election.html
The Whole Thing Seems Insane’: New Documents Shed Light on Debate Inside Fox After Election
Messages and depositions from the network’s stars like Tucker Carlson revealed serious misgivings about claims of election fraud even as some of the hosts told their audiences of millions a very different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/business/media/tucker-carlson-trump.html  
5 Times Tucker Carlson Privately Reviled Trump: ‘I Hate Him’
The Fox host’s private comments, revealed recently in court documents, contrast sharply with his support of conservatives on his show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/06/fox-news-redactions-dominion/
Opinion  What is Fox News hiding in the Dominion lawsuit?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/14/sean-hannity-americas-no-2-threat-democracy-an-a-to-z-guide/
Opinion  Sean Hannity, America’s No. 2 threat to democracy: An A-to-Z guide

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/08/fox-news-dominion-corrupt-hannity-carlson/
Opinion  5 big takeaways from the Dominion-Fox News document dump

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/09/us/politics/jenna-ellis-trump-2020-election.html
Trump Lawyer Admits to Falsehoods in 2020 Fraud Claims
Jenna Ellis acknowledged that she knowingly misrepresented the facts about election fraud in a disciplinary procedure by Colorado state bar officials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2023/03/07/fox-news-dominion-tucker-carlson-texts
Tucker Carlson said he hates Trump ‘passionately,’ Fox lawsuit texts show
Exhibits in Dominion Voting Systems’ defamation suit reveal the ‘existential crisis’ within Fox News triggered by Trump’s 2020 loss and his rift with a once-favored network

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-trump.html
Records Show Fox and G.O.P.’s Shared Quandary: Trump
Fox hosts and executives privately mocked the former president’s election fraud claims, even as the network amplified them in a frantic effort to appease viewers.